The world of no good

wanna have a fun life, travel, and see different cultures.

Sunday, September 04, 2005

It Happens Not Even In India

Several arguments have been put forth against my stand that USA as a society has been degenerating, that it doesn't hold a candle to the Western European, Scandinavian and Japanese societies. I have heard that I was wrong to blame the people of USA for the doings of its government, I have heard that any superpower in its place would do the same. Now, I think I need say no more, for the Americans have made a spectacle of themselves on all the news channels across the world.

Looting, murder, rape, official apathy on such a grand scale were not witnessed even during the Tsunami and the floods in Bihar! One can no longer claim that dislike for America is a result of the foreign policy of its government or that Bush alone is resposible for all the shenanigans perpetrated in Iraq, Afghanistan and the rest of the world. The problem is that a rot has set deep in the core of the american society.


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6:42 AM  
Blogger karthik durvasula said...

The apathy was shown by the (Bush) govt. Most people who saw the lack of care were outraged. If what u say were true of the general american public, then i don't see why they would have been outraged. - they all shouldn't have cared a damn, by your logic.

It seems to me, that this is just another case showing a huge difference between the american govt. and the american public.

I repeat an old statement, don't judge the general population by what the govt does. It just isn't fair!

1:32 PM  
Blogger PS said...

Hey Kar,

Looks like you've put up an argument just for the sake of it...

Come on, looting and raping are not due to 'govt. (Bush)apathy'. That was due to the degeneracy... take for instance Mumbai, the govt. disappeared during the flood, but ordinary people stood up to help where they could. OK a few guys were rather enthusiastic while rescuing young women :), but that was the worst, if you can call it that.

And frankly, I didn't see too many Americans outraged... in fact there was this guy (a victim) who went on about the kindness in Bush's eyes and how things were going to get better after Bush's visit :-0. He sounded a lot like the guy who said that he was traumatised for life after 9/11.

I think a majority of them are nincompoops, flocks of sheep that will believe just about anything!!!

10:21 AM  
Blogger karthik durvasula said...

People here ARE worried; they are irritated by the govt.'s lethargy.

and for once, the american media criticised the american govt.'s handling.

As i see it, all ur comments need to be reserved for the govt., and not be directed at everyone.

about theft, do u really think there were fewer thefts during the floods in bombay?

10:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you also have to remember that the floods in bombay were nowhere as devastating as the ones in New Orleans. people (and police) in bombay could still walk on the streets. of course abundant availability of guns in the US could also have contributed.

5:15 PM  
Blogger pagala'k' said...

YES there were fewer thefts in Bombay.

8:08 PM  
Blogger karthik durvasula said...

Kumar, in this case, anything short of numerical proof is an assumption.

yes, fewer were reported on TV - but, that doesn't mean a thing. cos our media also doesn't sensationalise everything the way the US media does.

9:12 PM  
Blogger majanx said...

PS wrote the 1st two lines of the story and conviniently left the scene for the rest to fight it out (over two lines!).
PS!!! post the rest part, fast!

3:56 AM  
Blogger pagala'k' said...

karthik u are tagged. PS u too. Maynak...come on man, you are the only guy who leaves sensible comments on my blog ;).

10:07 AM  
Blogger Kumari said...

I still side with PS. There were kids lost during Tsunami...there were orphaned parents running away with someone else's kids to fill the void in their lives BUT there were not rapes of kids on their way to the bathroom inside a dark superdome. Sorry, if a section of the society can stoop to satisfy its carnal pleasures during a catastrophe it does talk of Degeneration.

12:47 PM  
Blogger karthik durvasula said...

I don't think anyone disagrees with saying that a certain section of the american society is degenerate (or for that matter any society).

the question at hand is, is it fair to generalise the degeneracy to the whole population?

and, i think it isn't.

12:50 PM  
Blogger pagala'k' said...

Karthik, half the arguments that we, no not we, that you seem to have with everyone is because generalization is something that you cannot digest.

But not many can view issues as isolated events and analyze them with cold and clinical precision. At some point in time the rape of a 6 year old tends to blur the line between cold logic and humanity. I wish everyone could view things from your perspective but sadly most of us are weak hearted.

I am in no way saying that you are cold hearted. The world needs people like you in making objective decisions but people of your kind will be a minority and are usually least understood and most misinterpreted.

7:08 PM  
Blogger PS said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

10:24 PM  
Blogger PS said...

Karthik, I see you repeating that Americans care, but don't see anything in support, you have also not made any other point... some insights into why you have taken your stand might help...

Also, American public outrage sounds a lot like the opinions expressed by women at a kitty party... They hold certain views because it is fashionable... It reminds me of an expression coined by Richard Feynman - 'Cocktail Party Philosohphers'

10:40 PM  
Blogger PS said...

Kumari, Thanks for going through my post and leaving your comment. It feels really nice to have someone from outside my immediate circle of friends reading my post.

Mayank, I was looking forward to having Karthik post his view on this, not just leave a comment.

Kumar, what do you mean by tagged?

Karthik, Indian media senationalises events just as much, if not more than the American media does. You will know if you watch NDTV, try to follow the gyrations of the news reader's head and you will wake up the next morning with a pain in your neck :) ... what I am trying to say is, they are more worried about how they they look and present news rather than the content of the news!!! You get to hear their opinions more than you get to hear the news!!!

11:11 PM  
Blogger pagala'k' said...

check my blog will know what getting tagged means.

3:39 AM  
Blogger majanx said...

Since I read the post for the first time, I was of the opinion that PS could have more appropriately titled the article It happens not only in India.

I think you all are aware about the rapes, gang rapes, molestation, abuses going on in the post-tsunami Sri-Lankan, Indonesian (and most probably Indian) refugee camps. Looting and plundering was comman in all areas hit by tsunami. There were young girls being forced into mairrages with old widdowers. They were even selling off orphans to sex-trafficers and so on and on ...
(google tsunami-rapes, tsunami-looting and then even u'll know what I know )

‘’…the rape of a 6 year old tends to blur the line between cold logic and humanity…’’-Kumar
Guys, are you telling me that u have never read about such incidents in India? I suggest you people start reading ur news more carefully. So, how are they more degenerated than us?

“Looting, murder, rape, official apathy on such a grand scale...” –PS
C’mon guys, after 1984-delhi, 1992-mumbai, and recent godhra roits, we are not in a position to point that out. I also hesitate to mention Delhi, where atleast one woman is raped every 24 hrs(woman above the age of 65 are not spared!!!).

“…no longer claim that dislike for America is a result of the foreign policy of its government...” -PS
So is the dislike becuz of how degenerated the US society is? So, shall I hate americans because they rape their women and loot their shops, when I’m doing the same in my country, and more.

“…or that Bush alone is responsible…”-PS
So, is that guy/guys raping 6yr olds in dark corners and looting walmart responsible for situation in Iraq. Maybe that guy said to Bush- ‘hey dude! I wud love to rape iraqi 6yr olds and loot iraqi walmart, why don’t u send us there?’. And before we go more into the sexual exploits of the US army, plz do a check on the same of the indian army in kashmir and the North East. We are way ahead of them.

The media in Amerika is as capitalistic as its economy. They produce what brings profit. In the other words, they show what people want to see; thrill. Is the rest of the world not thrilled (do check the dictionary meaning of thrill before atacking me) after seeing all these reports of shooting, looting, raping and crap happening in the supposedly most advanced society in the world. Is CNN not getting never-heard-before viewership during these coverage? But whos interested in seeing looting/raping in 3rd world india?

"...Indian media senationalises events just as much..." -PS
There have been countless songs on the influence of american media on their society- latest being ‘American Idiot’ by Green Day. Indian media compares nowhere (thankfully) when sensationalising stuff.

Admit it, without these reports, there would have not been this post. I mean, tsunami was a boring affair since it was covered by the asian media. They covered only the regular stuff, and didnt bother showing the 'thrilling' part. Where were these posts when tsunami happened.

“…degeneracy of american society…”- THE TOPIC
The truth today is that the american society is one which we all copy, or try to. Everyone- be it europe, scnadinavia, japan (oh, their teens are totally americanised), now even china, and indians are trying very hard to catch up. Everything we do is in one way or the other a copy of what american teens do/did. And when groups like RSS act against this americanisation of indians, they are termed anti-social by ppl like PS. And in the same tone they call US society degenerating. We all love to have our Archies, McDs, Valentines Day and we also call then degerating. Is that hypocrisy or what?

The only reason the americans are hated the world over is because they are the most powerfull, advanced country in the world. They rule the world entertainment scene. They rule the style/fashion scene. They’ve got the celebrities And they dictate what happens in other countries. We all would love to be in uncle sam's shoes, and hate him because we are not. Its a clear case of haves and have nots.

I think the central arguement of this debate is that if Americans as low- down as we are, how come only they get the super-society tag and not us. The only place the american socienty has actually degenerated is in our heads after comparing to our pre-existing notion of it.

3:46 AM  
Blogger pagala'k' said...

’…the rape of a 6 year old tends to blur the line between cold logic and humanity…’’-Kumar
Guys, are you telling me that u have never read about such incidents in India? I suggest you people start reading ur news more carefully. So, how are they more degenerated than us?

The reason why I mentioned the rape of the 6 year old was to not point out the degeneracy in American society or compare it with our own societal set-up. I mentioned that because I cannot read a news item in a very detached manner coldly consuming the facts. I can't enter the numbers in a database as soon as I read about the rapes, murders and lootings. I seriously don't think we should debate the fact that India had lesser number of rapes than America (I have done it in the previous comment pertaining to the mumbai thefts). At some point in time the nationalities don't matter.A 6 year old being raped in India is as horrific to me as the rape of an American 6 year old.

6:42 AM  
Blogger pagala'k' said...

I completely agree with Maynak on all other counts.

6:46 AM  
Blogger karthik durvasula said...

@ PS:'Cocktail Party Philosohphers' - aren't we all? the fact that we are discussing all this stuff without ever intending to do anything about it makes us no different. what u said is not true of only the americans - it is true of most people on earth - i really don't see why you should isolate the americans for it.

btw, good comment mayank. there there was one thing that i would dissatisfying - we went too far afield from the initial post (all of us).

kumar rightly pointed out that this chain (at least my contribution) was about separating the baddies from the goodies. and, to blame the whole of america for the mistakes of a few (maybe many) rotten individuals would be a sad thing to do.

8:02 AM  
Blogger Kumari said...

Good response Mayank. It does make me view it differently but then like Kumar says, my heart rules my life and most times i am too overwhelmed to stop judging anyone or anything.

That said...this kind of reminded me of all those huge fiery discussions we used to have in the hostel rooms late in the night :)

11:06 AM  
Blogger PS said...

Karthik, fashionablitiy is not the only aspect on which we bases our opinions. That, I believe is the difference between us and Cocktail Party Philosophers.

3:34 AM  

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